Martin Rune Hoxer is the Executive Director for Innovation Centre Denmark (ICDK) in Shanghai, a board member of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Global Tech Board, and a member of the advisory board for business programs at Aalborg University. He has vast experience within innovation, internationalization and business development.

何穆現(xiàn)任丹麥科技創(chuàng)業(yè)中心（上海）主任，是丹麥外交部全球技術(shù)委員會(huì)董事會(huì)成員、奧爾堡大學(xué)商業(yè)咨詢委員會(huì)成員，在創(chuàng)新、國(guó)際化及商務(wù)拓展領(lǐng)域擁有豐富的經(jīng)驗(yàn)。

高大偉：何穆，你非常了解中國(guó)，我知道你也去過(guò)天津。天津?qū)⒃诒驹屡e行世界智能大會(huì)。你來(lái)自丹麥，關(guān)于智慧城市你們有很多經(jīng)驗(yàn)可以分享。我的問(wèn)題很簡(jiǎn)單：什么樣的城市稱得上智慧城市？

何穆：高教授，非常感謝。我認(rèn)為這個(gè)問(wèn)題看似簡(jiǎn)單，但遺憾的是答案卻很復(fù)雜。無(wú)論如何，我們能做的就是從丹麥的角度出發(fā)，為中國(guó)提供目前還沒(méi)有的東西。這就意味著我們可能會(huì)用不同的思路來(lái)看待這個(gè)問(wèn)題，因?yàn)閷?duì)我們來(lái)說(shuō)，智慧城市不僅與技術(shù)有關(guān)，主要還是要樹(shù)立全局觀念，同時(shí)要以人為本。

因此，要打造智慧城市就需要為城市居民提供新的機(jī)遇。我們知道中國(guó)的大城市也在積極推進(jìn)城市化建設(shè)。丹麥實(shí)際上只有一個(gè)城市人口超過(guò)一百萬(wàn)。而在中國(guó)，你也了解，數(shù)字非常驚人。中國(guó)有一百個(gè)城市人口超過(guò)一百萬(wàn)。因此人們?cè)絹?lái)越來(lái)需要更加可持續(xù)的解決方案。

因此，我認(rèn)為智慧城市主要是以創(chuàng)新的方式來(lái)發(fā)展環(huán)保技術(shù)、確保材料的循環(huán)利用、以更高的標(biāo)準(zhǔn)建設(shè)城市。這意味著對(duì)于現(xiàn)有的建筑群來(lái)說(shuō)，無(wú)論是在改造還是升級(jí)過(guò)程中，目標(biāo)都是為了達(dá)到更高的標(biāo)準(zhǔn)，使其更加節(jié)能。因此這些不同的方面都需要我們通過(guò)更全面的方法進(jìn)行分析，從更全面的角度進(jìn)行城市規(guī)劃。

基本上，要考慮如何應(yīng)用技術(shù)，如何改造升級(jí)現(xiàn)有的建筑群，如何以城市居民為出發(fā)點(diǎn)，不管是小孩還是老人，或是需要在城市生活的家庭。這就需要考慮到資源、擁堵、出行方式等問(wèn)題，如何有效利用資源，比如水資源。我們需要考慮到許多因素，但我認(rèn)為以人為本總是明智之舉。

高大偉：非常感謝，何穆。你把智慧城市與可持續(xù)性聯(lián)系在一起，這個(gè)話題涉及的內(nèi)容非常廣泛。在人的層面，丹麥的幸福指數(shù)高居榜首，聞名全球。因此我想提到另外一個(gè)有趣的概念：宜居城市。在你看來(lái)，什么樣的城市稱得上是宜居城市？

何穆：在我看來(lái)，在大多數(shù)斯堪的納維亞人看來(lái)，宜居城市與我之前所提到的內(nèi)容息息相關(guān)，與生活在城市的居民息息相關(guān)。也就是說(shuō)，城市是否能滿足你在人生不同階段的需求？城市里是否有綠化？這是疫情期間人們開(kāi)始廣泛討論的話題。這些超大城市中是否規(guī)劃了足夠的戶外空間？

我想在這里引用一個(gè)數(shù)字，出自丹麥在幾年前所發(fā)布的一份報(bào)告。我們當(dāng)時(shí)與丹麥的一些大機(jī)構(gòu)合作，探究如何建設(shè)更好的城市，為市民提供更好的機(jī)遇。如果我們能更好地規(guī)劃城市居民的出行方式，就能帶來(lái)社會(huì)經(jīng)濟(jì)效益。

因此，汽車(chē)所帶來(lái)的不僅是污染和擁堵問(wèn)題。不鼓勵(lì)人們開(kāi)車(chē)，鼓勵(lì)人們騎自行車(chē)，為騎行提供更完善的基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施，哥本哈根在這一方面做得很好。報(bào)告顯示，騎車(chē)一公里就相當(dāng)于帶來(lái)一歐元的社會(huì)經(jīng)濟(jì)效益。每次你讓一個(gè)人騎行一公里，就能從醫(yī)藥費(fèi)或者其他費(fèi)用中節(jié)省一歐元。這是丹麥或者北歐的模式，也是我們福利制度的一部分。這能產(chǎn)生許多社會(huì)經(jīng)濟(jì)效益。城市規(guī)劃者和從政者可以通過(guò)建設(shè)更加宜居的城市節(jié)省不少成本。

高大偉：非常感謝，何穆。很高興天津能提供世界智能大會(huì)這樣的平臺(tái)，讓我們共享經(jīng)驗(yàn)，因?yàn)榇蠹宜幍沫h(huán)境各不相同。丹麥采取的措施在重慶、成都等這樣的大城市很難推廣，但經(jīng)驗(yàn)分享很重要，這有助于全球智慧城市的建設(shè)。再次感謝，感謝你對(duì)本次大會(huì)的支持。謝謝你，何穆。

何穆：謝謝你，教授。

David: Martin, you know China very well, and also, I know you have been in Tianjin. You know the World Intelligence Congress which is going to take place in May. You come from Denmark. You have a lot of things to say about “smart city”. I want to ask you a very simple question. What makes a city smart?

Martin: Thank you very much, professor. I think that the question is simple, but unfortunately, I think the answer is complex. Anyways, I think what we are here to do from the Danish side is simply to provide something which is not here. So, it means that we are probably taking another approach on this question, because to us, it’s not about just technology. It’s basically to take a holistic view, and to put the people in the center of the equation.

So, it means that in order for it to be smart, it needs to provide new opportunities for the people living in the cities. We know that urbanization is very much on the agenda also here in China with the big cities. Coming from Denmark, we actually only have one city with over 1 million people. Here in china, as you know, numbers are amazing. You have 100 cities with over 1 million people. So, there’s a need, there’s a growing demand for coming up with more sustainable solutions.

So, I think what is smart is basically to give new innovative ways of how we can provide environmental technologies, how we can make sure that we are reusing our materials, how we build in a better standard. So, it means that what we can see from the existing building mass is that when we do retrofits, or when we are upgrading the building mass, it is for its better standards, it’s more energy efficient. So, a lot of these different things has to do with taking a more holistic approach on these different things. So, that also has to do with taking a more holistic perspective on urban planning.

Basically, taking into account both what can we do with technology, what can we do with the existing building mass that we have here, and how can we take a point of departure in the people that live in the city, whether it’s children, elderly, or it’s the families that also need to live in the cities. So, that goes for resource, congestions, mobility, how we use resource like water, for instance. So, there’s a lot of things that go into it, but putting people first, it’s basically, I think, the smart move.

David: Thank you very much, Martin. Of course, you associated a smart city with sustainability, and of course, this is a very rich theme. But talking about people, you are very famous in Denmark for the happiness index. So, I come to another very interesting notion, the notion of a “l(fā)ivable city”. In your eyes, Martin, what makes a city livable?

Martin: Well, in my eyes, and I think also in the eyes of many Scandinavians, I would say this has to do with what I said before. I mean, it has to do with the life that is lived in the cities. So, it means, does it provide for the needs that you have in different phases of your life? Do we have green spaces? That is something that has come up also during this pandemic. Do we actually have the outdoors that we need in these mega cities as well?

So, I think, one number that I would like to cite is actually something that a report that came out in Denmark a couple of years ago. We are working with big organizations in Denmark on building better cities and providing better opportunities for the people. And there are social-economic benefits from looking at how we can construct mobility in the cities in a better way.

So, basically, it’s not only about pollution and the congestions that you’ll get from the cars. But basically, if you take the cars away, and you put people on the bikes, and you provide a better infrastructure for biking, which is also something that Copenhagen is very known for. I mean, 1 kilometer actually equals 1 euro in social-economic benefits. So, every time you put 1 person on a bike that rides 1 kilometer, you are saving 1 euro from hospital bills, from a lot of these different things that in the Danish model or the Nordic model, it’s part of the welfare model as well. So, there’s a lot of social-economic benefits. Urban planners and politicians, they can save quite a lot from looking at how can we provide for more livable cities.

David: Thank you very much, Martin. It is great to have such a platform in Tianjin, the World Intelligence Congress, also for experience sharing, because the contexts are different. Of course, you cannot do what you are doing in Denmark in a big city like Chongqing or Chengdu, or so many big cities in China, but this is important to share experience in order for all of us across the world to build smarter cities. Thank you very much, and thank you for the support to the World Intelligence Congress. Thank you, Martin.

Martin:?Thank you, professor.

來(lái)源：津云